Of all the major world cultures, the Hindus have been, on the average, the least prudish about sex. From temple carvings to sacred and secular literature, sex has its place, so much so that prudish Europeans have termed it oriental licentiousness. But it is only one part of life. Artha, Dharma, Kama, Moksha - these are the four purusharthas - if you like, the main goals of life. Sex falls in the Kama bucket, though Kama is encompasses more than just sex. Hindus also write about Artha, Dharma and Moksha; and the great epics and Puranas teach about all four buckets. To take an example from the Puranas, when things go out of balance, towards the end of this story, also on my blog, the preceptor to the Devas, Brihaspati has to take steps to restore the married life of Indra and Shachi.
The problem with a commentator on the Hindus like Wendy Doniger and her school is that they are out of balance - they find sex even where it isn't. The review I've referred to previously goes into this a little bit. It is a gross distortion that Doniger and co. consistently do; and their apologists constantly let them get away with it. Anyway, now I have a witness that this is not something that only Internet Hindus are imagining, the obsession with sex is real. The witness is Prof. C. Christine Fair, whose analyses of Pakistan have been featured on this blog.
Incidentally, you can listen to C.C. Fair on the subject of sexual harassment, and Pakistan here: http://www.globaldispatchespodcast.com/episode-49-c-christine-fair/
The problem with a commentator on the Hindus like Wendy Doniger and her school is that they are out of balance - they find sex even where it isn't. The review I've referred to previously goes into this a little bit. It is a gross distortion that Doniger and co. consistently do; and their apologists constantly let them get away with it. Anyway, now I have a witness that this is not something that only Internet Hindus are imagining, the obsession with sex is real. The witness is Prof. C. Christine Fair, whose analyses of Pakistan have been featured on this blog.
Incidentally, you can listen to C.C. Fair on the subject of sexual harassment, and Pakistan here: http://www.globaldispatchespodcast.com/episode-49-c-christine-fair/
Below the fold, Not Safe for Work.
FYI, Hydnora Africana
Hydnora africana is an achlorophyllous plant in the family Hydnoraceae, native to southern Africa that is parasitic on the roots of members of the Euphorbiaceae family. The plant grows underground, except for a fleshy flower that emerges above ground and emits an odor of feces to attract its natural pollinators, dung beetles, and carrion beetles. The flowers act as temporary traps, retaining the beetles that enter long enough for them to pick up pollen. It is also called jakkalskos or jackal food.
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ttt · 519 weeks ago
macgupta 81p · 519 weeks ago
Rajan Parrikar · 519 weeks ago
Guest · 519 weeks ago
I would add, though, that the supposedly scandalous nature of her party is pretty mild stuff compared to the usual fare of the American prime time sitcom. Check out, for example, the cartoon Bob's Burger's for Apr 19, 2015.
macgupta 81p · 519 weeks ago
The doctor displays the first image, and asks the patient what she thinks of.
"Sex", she replies.
The doctor displays the second image, a third and a fourth, with the same reply.
The doctor says, "seems you have an obsession with sex".
"What do you mean?", the lady says indignantly, "just who was showing me all those dirty pictures?"
There is nothing ad hominem about showing why Wendy Doniger O'Flaherty and her students sexualize all aspects of Hindu culture. It stems from them, and not from the culture. As I can demonstrate, the culture is not shy in discussing/portraying sex without wink & nod; therefore why she and her ilk need to find it where it is not needs an explanation, and the explanation has been provided.
There is the long lived culture and thousands upon thousands of commentaries on it; it is what is there; and there are some books by a Wendy Doniger. Idiots like you (yes, ad hominem here, I realized you were an idiot when you wrote that wearing jeans, drinking Coke and writing software for a living had unified the world culture) - idiots like you read one book - you haven't read the Ramayana, the Mahabharata, the Gita in any form, your awareness of Hindu culture is next to nil - you read one book, and now it is the gospel, and this culture has to explain itself to you and prove to you that Doniger is wrong, rather than Doniger having to prove to you that she has anything useful to say about Hindus. This is typical imperialist pig behavior that Asia and Africa have suffered through for some centuries. This lady comes with the credentials of your humanities culture, and so she trumps a billion people. So be it. I say - you don't have knowledge; I am under no obligation to you to prove that you have no knowledge, or to provide it to you; and if you want to deal with Hindus based on what Doniger purveyed to you, that is your problem, not mine. You want to think I'm a "True Believer", you are free to do so. Nothing you say or do defines me, any more than anything Doniger writes defines Hindus.
BTW, you can't have it both ways. If Doniger's party is not scandalous, then I'm not ad hominem-ing her, am I? If it is scandalous, then some stupid prime time sitcom is irrelevant, is it not?
It should also be amply clear to you that you are simply not welcome here, not that I am going to censor your comments or any such. I have your measure, and it is lacking.
ttt · 519 weeks ago
macgupta 81p · 519 weeks ago
macgupta 81p · 519 weeks ago
That, IMO,pretty much sums up her career as far as Hinduism goes - "sex in the texts".
Guest · 519 weeks ago
macgupta 81p · 519 weeks ago
Guest · 519 weeks ago
It's certainly true that modern India is notoriously prudish, but Indian art makes a very good argument that that was hardly always the case. I don't know anything about the history of modern Hindu prudishness, but at least a couple of Indian writers have claimed that it was a Victorian import from England. MaCaulay, the architect of much of the colonial law, was famously scandalized by the sexuality of Indian art.
macgupta 81p · 519 weeks ago
macgupta 81p · 519 weeks ago
macgupta 81p · 519 weeks ago
1. One can look up Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 6.4.12 here. It describes a ritual by which the offender "departs from this world emasculated and shorn of his merits". Therefore, it says, be careful not to offend anyone who knows this ritual. https://archive.org/details/Brihadaranyaka.Upanis...
It is a caution against even cutting jokes with the wife of a Rg Vedic scholar who knows this ritual.
2. In Kautilya's Arthashastra, the prescribed punishment for the male lover of a woman caught in adultery is twice that of the woman. For the woman, the punishment is "mutilation by cutting of the nose and an ear, or 500 panas" and for her lover, the punishment is "mutilation by cutting of the nose and both ears or 1000 panas". {Kautilya, the ArthaShastra, L.N. Rangarajan, published by Penguin Classics"}. The woman is punished, and man doubly so. Of course, we do not know how much any of this was actually carried out in practice. (For a discussion of this general problem with the Indian codes, of not knowing how theoretical they were, one can refer to the cited book and elsewhere.}
3. Shvetaketu, son of Uddalaka, is not a person of "later Hinduism", he is contemporary with the Upanisads. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svetaketu
As Wiki says, "In the Mahabharata, Svetaketu is credited for creating the "Woman being confined to one husband for life" ...".
J.A.B. van Buitenen, of Doniger's own school and department at the University of Chicago, provides this translation below. Pandu is narrating a tradition to his wife Kunti. (Buitenen's translation sometimes irritates me, e.g., when he uses "Baron" for "kshatriya". Likewise, "dharma" as "law" seems off. But such are the perils of translation.)
"Now I shall tell you the Law, listen to me, the ancient Law that the great-spirited law-minded seers saw."
"In the olden days, so we hear, the women went uncloistered, my lovely wife of the beautiful eyes; they were their own mistresses who took their pleasure where it pleased them. From childhood on they were faithless to their husbands, but yet not lawless, for such was the Law in the olden days. Even today the animal creatures still follow this hoary Law, without any passion or hatred. This anciently witnessed Law was honored by the great seers, and it still prevails among the Northern Kurus," {Note: Pandu was a scion of the Kurus, presumably the southern Kurus.}, "Kunti of the softly tapering thighs, for this is the Eternal Law that favors women. But in the present world the present rule was laid down soon after - I shall tell you fully by whom and why, sweet-smiling wife!"
"There was, so we hear, a great seer by the name of Uddalaka, and he had a hermit son who was called Svetaketu. It was he, so we hear, who laid down this rule among humankind, in a fit of anger, lotus-eyed Kunti-- now hear why. "
"Once, in full view of Svetaketu and his father, a brahmin took Svetaketu's mother by the hand and said, 'Let us go'. At this, the seer's son became indignant and infuriated, when he saw how his mother, as if by force, was being led away."
"But his father, on seeing him angered, said to Svetaketu, 'Do not be angry, son. This is the eternal Law. The women of all classes are uncloistered on earth. Just as the cows do, so do the creatures each in its class."
"Svetaketu, the seer's son, did not condone the Law, and laid down the present rule for men and women on earth, for humans but not for other creatures, good lady. Ever since, we hear, this rule has stood."
"'From this day on,' he ruled, 'a woman's faithlessness to her husband shall be a sin equal to aborticide, an evil that shall bring on misery. Seducing a chaste and constant wife who is avowed to her husband shall also be a sin on earth. And a wife who is enjoined by her husband to conceive a child and refuses shall incur the same evil.' Thus did Uddalaka's son, Svetaketu forcibly lay down this rule of the Law in the olden days, my bashful wife."
macgupta 81p · 519 weeks ago
The point of recounting this story is to remind one that the Law -- Dharma -- is very much human.
macgupta 81p · 519 weeks ago
""Thus hundreds of contradictory passages from the Srutis and Smritis are found, inculcating an option with regard to renunciation, or a succession among the orders of life, or the adoption of any one of them at will. The conduct of those who are versed in these scriptures has also been mutually conflicting. And there is disagreement even among great scholarrs who understand the meaning of the scriptures. Hence it is impossible for persons of shallow understanding clearly to grasp the meaning of the scriptures. It is only those who have a firm hold on the scriptures and logic, that can distinguish the particular meaning of any of those passages from that of the others. Therefore, in order to indicate their exact meaning, we shall discuss them according to our understanding."
So much for fundamentalism, it is logically impossible.
xnxx · 519 weeks ago
macgupta 81p · 519 weeks ago
provoked a response from ERP, of Bellows Falls, VT:
"It is dangerous to succumb to undiluted Europe-bashing". and we should not succumb to the pessimism of "certain American doom-merchants". It would be more relevant to note that Americans' opinions of Europe simply do not matter to anyone but Americans.
This is not yet true for India, the balance of power is not yet there, so Americans' opinions of India still have a practical impact. But under PM Modi, India is trying to get to where Americans' opinions of India simply do not matter to anyone but Americans. It will be some years yet.
Guest · 519 weeks ago