Saturday, December 09, 2017

AOT

If you thought you've seen all of the possible theories about Aryans in India, you're wrong.  After Aryan Invasion Theory, and Aryan Migration Theory, now there is AOT:  Aryan Outsourcing Theory! 
In the latter days of the Indus civilization, the townspeople may have hired Indo-Aryan charioteers to fight their wars. After the eventual demise of the Indus civilization pulled these Indo-Aryan warriors with their families and their livestock through to the Indus-Ganga plains, where they are of different kingdoms founded. They brought Y-DNA haplogroup R1a1a with them, today one of the biggest haplogroups in India. The customs of these Indo-Arian migrants would form the basis for the Vedic religion.

From here, with google translate:
http://sargasso.nl/indische-oceaan-2-eerste-handelsnetwerken/


What is this web-site?  Using google translate again:
Sargasso exists since 2001 and is one of the oldest weblogs in the Netherlands. In the rich history of Sargasso you will find the introduction of the live blog in the Netherlands, the coins of the term reaguurder, putting data journalism on the map and the struggle for more transparency in public administration (witness the many Wob procedures that Sargasso conducted has).

Comments (11)

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This idea has many counterparts in recorded history, and even in Indian history. The British got their military foothold in India by hiring out as mercenaries and trainers for Indian rulers in their mutual disputes. Similarly the Roman empire started hiring "barbarians" to fight for them who ultimately replaced them. It also accords well with the fact that it was male haplogroups (but not female) who may have entered India from Central Asia.
1 reply · active 381 weeks ago
The British didn't leave much of a genetic footprint in India. The Romans got replaced in the areas that they had conquered, but not in their native lands.
The Romans left a huge linguistic imprint on Europe, so it's a little surprising to me that their genetic imprint wasn't also substantial. The British left a substantial linguistic imprint on India, but the genetic imprint was very small - not too surprising since both British and Indians had strong endogamy rules at the time.
1 reply · active 381 weeks ago
The point that the Romans left a huge linguistic imprint on Europe is true, but they and their descendant empires dominated Europe for a long time relative to the 2 millenia since their heyday; plus the Romans had much more than just horses and chariots to offer.
It occurred to me that charioteers from Central Asia would have carried the Saraswathi-Sindhu language back to their homeland, when they lost their employment. :)
2 replies · active 379 weeks ago
Usually they just conquer the people who employed them once they forgot how to defend themselves.
1. The count of cases where mercenaries took over is tiny.
2. Whether they took over or not, they adopted the Saraswati-Sindhu language(s).
The line between mercenary and conqueror is often narrow. The British took over India and still speak English. Many Indians speak English, even though the English are long gone. Most evidence suggests that the languages related to Sanskrit came from Central Asia, not South Asia, though the Rakhigarhi DNA might well be a crucial piece of evidence, one way or the other.
1. A gentle reminder: the departure of the British from India is still within living memory. The timescale of history is much longer.

2. English was in decline in India soon after Independence (see articles from the 1980s). English picked up as India re-engaged with the American-led international economy.

3. The dominance of English into the indefinite future is far from assured. China, ASEAN, India, and the European Union (minus Great Britain) will each be non-English-native-language states of equal or greater weight than the USA-Great Britain-Canada-Australia-New Zealand combine. If South America gets its act together, so will it. I don't know where Africa is headed.

4. There is actually no evidence of what language was spoken in Central Asia 5000 years ago or 4000 years ago or 3000 years ago. No literature or writing or description of their language by outsiders has survived. You have to make some assumptions to make the statement that you do. It might be a useful exercise for you to write out those assumptions.

5. The link between genes and language is tenuous at best. Since you bring up the English in India example (your example, not mine, I don't think it is appropriate), think about it. When you write out your assumptions if you undertake the suggested exercise, this is worth thinking about - when do languages correlate with genes and when do they not?
1 reply · active 378 weeks ago
When writing out assumptions, also take into account things like the assumptions behind "proto-language reconstruction". http://arunsmusings.blogspot.com/2012/10/pie-mira...
Re: Your number 3. I agree. The most likely replacement would probably be Mandarin, since it has both a very large number of native speakers and appears to be in economic ascendance. English is hardly dead, but probably on the decline. I would guess that Hindi is very much in a distant third place, mainly because it has so many local competitors (including English). The other possibles either lack number of speakers or economic importance.

Re #4. The assumptions are laid out in detail in such works as Mallory's The Search for the Indo-Europeans, but here are some key ones: Languages develop in intercommunicating groups, which were small in pre-civilization days, the vast spread of Indo-European languages was carried by either potent cultural or (more likely) physical spread of the speakers, the presence of closely related words in all or nearly all IE languages indicates their presence in the original culture, as well as the physical objects the words correspond to, e.g., horses, carts, and other technologies. Further, it's known that two major genetic and cultural spread over much of Eurasia - first, diffusion of agriculture from Anatolia and the Middle East, and second, diffusion of pastoralism from Central Asia. One or both of these is the likely origin of Indo-European.

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