Monday, February 22, 2010

Amartya Sen strikes again

The World Bank has a South Asia blog. On it I saw this:
In the book, The Idea of Justice, Amartya Sen motivates the discussion on the importance of processes and responsibilities by relying on an example. In the Gita (part of the Mahabharata), on the eve of the crucial battle episode in the epic, Arjuna expresses his doubts about leading the fight which will result in so much killing. Lord Krishna, tells him that he, Arjuna, must perform his duty, that is, to fight. And to fight, irrespective of the consequences.

Krishna’s blessing of the demands of duty is meant to win the argument from a religious perspective. But most of us would share Arjuna’s concerns about the fact that, if the war were to occur, with him leading the charge on the side of justice and propriety, many people would get killed. He himself would be doing a lot of the killing, often of people for whom he had affection.

Arjuna’s dilemma goes well beyond the process-independent view of consequences. Like him, most of us believe that an appropriate understanding of social realization has to take the comprehensive form of a process-inclusive broad account.

It then goes on to basically say that poverty alleviation programs need to figure out how to verify that they are working, i.e., like Arjuna (before Krishna persuaded him otherwise) we must worry about consequences.

To my response, Elaina Cardoso replied:
A rich text such as the Gita can live with more than one interpretation. Amartya Sen makes good use of the contrast between Krishna's ethics ("do your duty") and Arjuna's dilemma. Should Arjuna do his duty and fight (and kill many people including people he loved)? Or should he spend the rest of his life in exile (without being responsible for a brutal battle and much killing)? Even if there would not be peace, Arjuna could choose between leading the battle or not.

My responses were hurried, here I'd like to spell it out a bit more carefully.

a. First, to read any text is to interpret it. There is no mathematical proof of what the correct interpretation is. But we can talk of good interpretations and bad interpretations. If the text is not gibberish and not fiction, a good interpretation is possible. We postulate that a good interpretation of the Gita is possible.

b. Second, we note that it is almost impossible for humans to do anything without the consequences in mind. I raise my hand to scratch my nose - even in this simple action, there is a goal that I hope to reach.

c. Third, as you find from any sane teacher of the Gita, (ranging in orientation from Eknath Easwaran to "Dadaji" Pandurang Athavale to Swami Dayananda Saraswati) the non-attachment to the consequences does not mean that you do not strive for a particular goal. One is irresponsible if one does not use the right means for the right goals. What it means is that success does not elate you nor does failure depress you.

d. Fourth, while the Gita is indeed a rich text and admits many interpretations, one still has a responsibility to not mangle the text.

To illustrate the category of mistake that Amartya Sen makes here, consider the Quran as a rich text that admits of many interpretations. I can quote chapter and verse and prove to you that the true believer is obliged to fight and kill the non-believer. At least, it is within the scope of possible interpretations (and such interpreters exist). But notice what I have done by this interpretation - I have turned every Muslim into a homicidal maniac and every peaceful Muslim into a hypocrite who does not follow the tenets of his/her religion. (Indeed, a lot of Muslim-phobia is created in exactly this way - by creating mistrust of peaceful Muslims, saying that they cannot be following their religion, the true religion is that preached by al Qaeda.)

Like Amartya Sen did with the Gita, I can use this interpretation to make a wonderful and beautiful philosophical discourse on the First Amendment and the Freedom of Religion in the Light of Islam. But I cannot justify the mistake I made on these grounds.

Amartya Sen with his interpretation of the Gita, turns the Hindus of the present and of the last two thousand years into cretins; a central book of theirs supposedly tell them to act without thinking of the consequences, and they have held on to such a useless book through the millenia.

My advice to people like Elaina Cardoso is: No matter how brilliant Albert Einstein was you wouldn't learn the Torah from him.

Comments (20)

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Concerning your very last sentence - based on my readings of Einstein's non-scientific writings and Amartya's non-economics doodle, I know that I would at the very least give Einstein a serious read on matters pertaining to the Torah.
1 reply · active 787 weeks ago
Hmm... Yes, I think Einstein knew his limits, and so he wouldn't have misled.
"Amartya Sen with his interpretation of the Gita, turns the Hindus of the present and of the last two thousand years into cretins". I don't see how Sen achieves what you say. However, he seriously needs to reread Bankim Chandra's KrishnaCharitra to get a more nuanced view of the Mahabharata and Krishna in particular.
2 replies · active 692 weeks ago
Hindus apparently treasure a book that tells them to act without considering the consequences of the action. After millenia, we finally have Amartya Sen who uncovers this major Hindu flaw - the Hindus have been leaping without looking - and teaches them that they must act with an eye on the consequences. No one thought of it before? Really?
I NEVER EXPECTED AMARTYA SEN , AS SUCH AN IGNORANT PERSON. MAY BE LIKE PROF.RAMANUJAN, AMARTYA SEN ALSO SEEKING CHEAP PUBILICITY.

THE RIGHT INTREPRETATION MAY BE, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT IN CONSEQUENCES, THATS ALL.

YOU HAVE TO ACT WITH A GOAL - BUT RESULT IN THE HANDS OF ALMIGHTY. SO BE PREPARED FOR ANY CONSEQUENCE - BUT THRIVE FOR THE GOOD, thats all.
I think Amartya Sen's interpretation of the Gita is flawed. Because he essentially strips the sentence out of its context. Arjuna was fighting the Kauravas. The Kauravas were clearly evil, they had usurped the Pandavas land and refused to return it. Krishna is telling Arjuna that the right thing to do is to fight evil (even when it is not convenient).
Hello,

I think an even greater flaw in the representation of the conversation between Arjun and Krishna is the insinuation that according to Krishna, Arjun's duty is to "fight". Even a cursory reading of the Gita would inform the reader that according to Krishna, Arjun's duty is not to just "fight" but to "Fight Adharma". Therefore according to Mr Sen's representation (I do not call it an interpretation since his understanding of the text is fatally flawed) of the Gita, Arjun is being encouraged to act like a blood hungry warlord without a conscience. Nothing can be farther from the truth. Krishna's message is that Arjun by dint of being a kshatriya is obliged to physically fight adharma being espoused by the Kaurava's and while doing so he must not allow either the consequences (death, destruction) or the end result (victory/ defeat) stop him from performing his dharma dispassionately.

Regards.
3 replies · active 692 weeks ago
Hi, yes, well it feeds into the argument that these Hindus are an immoral people, their holy book encourages bloodthirsty violence.
I perfectly agree with this view, Gita teaches us to fight for dharam, and also it tells us that who ever is fighting with adharam, howsoever holy he might be (in case of Mahabharat - Vismapitamaa ), he is guilty of adharam.
There is no insinuation that Arjun is called upon to "just fight" . Please read again . There is clear acknowledgement that he is on the side of justice and propriety.
if the war were to occur, with HIM ( Arjun) leading the charge on the side of justice and propriety,
It is in line with this:

Wendy Doniger On Gita
"The Bhagavad Gîtâ is not as nice a book as some Americans think. Throughout the Mahâbhârata ... Krishna goads human beings into all sorts of murderous and self-destructive behaviours such as war.... The Gîtâ is a dishonest book; it justifies war. ..I'm a pacifist. I don't believe in `good' wars."
Wendy Doniger, Indologist and Professor of History of Religions at the University of Chicago: Philadelphia Inquirer of 19 November 2000.
1 reply · active 692 weeks ago
sanjoy ghosh's avatar

sanjoy ghosh · 692 weeks ago

Sir u must read mahabharata first and then pass comments
May be it's time for Amartya Sen to retire.
the path to evil is littered wit good intentions. this is for pacifists like amartya sen and wendy doniger.
If the Hindus had misunderstood GITA as the so called "Nobel Laureates.." India would have been reduced to a bunch of blood thirsty goons...
Watch what you say Mr. Sen...
Amartya's interpretation of the Holy Gita is highly flawed. The interpretation should be in the context of the Mahabharata War.

Arjuna belongs to the warrior class and his job is to fight a war against the adharmic forces led by Kauravas no matter what relations are pitted on the other side.

Therefore, Lord Krishna tells in the Bhagavat Gita - every person should perform his duties irrespective of his affiliations or relations or fruits . The words are simple, straightforward and even a child will understand. Bhagavat Gita does not require rocket science or super intelligence. Amartaya Sen or Wendy Doniger should not go on a research expedition.
anjan basu's avatar

anjan basu · 692 weeks ago

I dont blame wendy as he has money laundering cultural heritage at the cost of anything. But how come sen developed this culture? He has had rich cultural heritage for generations. Although I am an atheist, I read GITA at least fifty times to grasp its ideas. Everytime I read, I discovered new ideas. I do not find anything religious preaching in this book. Problem with the 20th/21st century intelligentsia that they want reputation and money at the price of even they have to sell their mother. Ethically these people are bankrupted. Just ignore them.
1 reply · active 692 weeks ago
AGREED.just ignore his uttraces for the sake of publicity.
Ravi Ranjan Singh's avatar

Ravi Ranjan Singh · 692 weeks ago

That's the issue our political class and police system has taken Mr. Sen's world too seriously. Thats why former is filling his pockets police meant to protect us has gave up their duty to mingle with the corrupt and anti-social elements.
An ignorant person thinks of that cultural or religious boundaries are made to limit a person. And these are been made for prohibiting him to live his life independently. He always considers those boundaries as the hurdle in the way of his freedom.

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